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Generator Update (Updated yet again below)

06Paypalcover.gifSo despite the fact that the generator that we purchased was obviously contraband (serial number removed) and had fraudulent EPA stickers (as attested to by a local engine repair shot), PayPal has denied our claim, without any explanation. If anything, it was not "brand-new, factory sealed" as advertised.

Dear MaryBeth Williams,

We have concluded our investigation into your claim:

Transaction Date: Oct 27, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$935.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: 0JD1026258432362B
Seller's Transaction ID: 3VM2853734252752E
Case Number: PP-220-763-426
Seller's Name: Clear Choice Property Solutions., LLC
Seller's Email: westcoastpowerandtool@yahoo.com

Based on our definition of significantly not-as-described, this claim does not qualify for a refund.

For more information about the claims process, please review the User Agreement.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

Protection Services Department

PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has been noted in the record of the PayPal user you reported. If we find this user has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status of this complaint. To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the PayPal site and click the Security Center link located at the bottom of
any page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.

Any legal eagles out there with suggestions? I've been in contact with others who have purchased generators from this dealer who also have missing serial numbers and non-functioning generators.

Update: Late last night (Sunday) we received another email from PayPal, this time, purportedly from an office termed "Executive Escalations". I've put it in toto below in the "extended entry" (click "read more"). The gist of it is that, while it's clear the seller is not, under PayPal's Terms of Service, at fault in any way, shape or form, PayPal is generously offering, this one time only (very clear about that) to reimburse us the $935, if we ship our generator to some mail drop at an industrial park in Texas.

If we agreed to this, I assume we would be conceding, per PayPal's decision, that West Coast Power and Tool did not in fact violate California (and probably Oregon) law, when it sold us a generator with the serial numbers removed and counterfeit EPA stickers. But we would get our money back -- maybe.

Fortunately, with advice from the small engine mechanic who documented the generator's "flaws" to PayPal, we have been able to get the generator to work (we had to disconnect the defective ignition switch, and pull the spark plug to turn off the generator.) So we do have power sufficient to run the Koufaxes (as long as the servers now hold up, see above.) We now think the best thing to do is to contact the California attorney general's office, as well as local police in Mendocino County (where we were when we purchased the generator,) as Eric is on good terms with the newly-elected county sheriff.

Email from PayPal:

Dear MaryBeth Williams,

My name is Megan and I work for the office of Executive Escalations. I want to personally thank you for contacting PayPal. Your concerns were recently forwarded to our office for review in the hope that we might be able to assist you further. I apologize for any frustration or inconvenience this matter may have caused for you.

A review of PayPal Buyer Protection claim PP-220-763-426shows it was processed and decided in accordance with the buyer dispute policies outlined in our User Agreement. PayPal has determined and outcome in the case, and it is our final decision. As is stated within the PayPal Buyer Protection Section of the User Agreement, "Decisions are final. Once PayPal has closed a claim, it cannot be reopened."

Please understand, this decision was made in accordance with the terms of PayPal's Buyer Protection Policy, which states, "PayPal will reserve the right to make a decision on 'significantly not-as-described' if the
buyer and seller cannot agree. Once PayPal has made a decision on a 'significantly not-as-described' item, that decision is final and cannot be appealed."

I apologize if you do not agree with PayPal's decision regarding this matter, however the decision was made after a careful investigation of all information available.

Please review the details of our PayPal Buyer Protection Policy in our User Agreement at https://www.paypal.com/useragreement or copy the entire link into the address bar.

Because we value you as a customer and we would like you experience using our service to be positive, we have decided to make a one-time exception to our normal policies. I will issue a credit in the amount of $935.00, to your PayPal account, if you will return the merchandise to PayPal. Please understand that this is a one-time exception, and similar exceptions should not be expected in the future.

If you wish to return the merchandise to PayPal for a full refund, you may ship the merchandise to the following address. Please obtain online tracking information and online signature confirmation, so we may confirm delivery of the merchandise. Once the tracking information confirms delivery, you may contact us at the email address below:

PayPal Returns
12750 Perimeter Drive Suite 154 Dallas, TX 75228

Please understand, all action taken on your account has been done in accordance with the terms of our User Agreement. You were presented with the opportunity to review the terms of our User Agreement prior to
establishing your PayPal account, and you acknowledged and accepted these terms.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again at crme@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
Megan
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company

Comments

From the sounds of it you are right to look into legal action. The seller was clearly at fault and PayPal does not want this to go further. You may want to contact the Better Business people as well, or their local equivalent.

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I am very glad to hear that you got it working. And that, as a consequence you have the space to pursue a legal complaint.

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I'm really glad you guys are getting some good karma for this thing. man!

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God I hate these clowns, and it's one reason why I refuse to have any dealings with Paypal. Never have, never will. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'

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I'm calling bullsh*t on PayPal. Total and utter bullsh*t.

By the way, you might want to contact Oregon's AG as well - assuming this seller truly operates out of there.

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